Wednesday, June 27, 2007

Good, Bad, And Just Plain Ugly

I had a couple of web wanderings that I wanted to share with everyone...

Lets start with the ugly, shall we. This just infuriated me, and I really shouldn't even be giving this idiot the attention that he/she is looking for, but I'd appreciate it if you would go chime in. This blogger decided to write a post insulting the Once Upon A Time Challenge and our wonderful host. Got my blood boiling and I had my own little comment to share. Carl's comment said it perfectly. I wish I had the gift of words that he does! What a moron...not you Carl, the idiot wrote the post :p

Here's the Good! I don't know if I should post may insult the above blogger. Kim at Honeyed Words posted quite the cool recipe yesterday. She made sci-fi themed party food including Oozing Flying Saucers and Tentacle Creatures and Jell-O Blob Monsters! You must check out her post. I loved it! Her blog is great by the way if you don't already read it. She posts wonderful book reviews along with mouth-watering recipes. Very unique!

That's all I really's been quite the quiet day....a day of reading and just sitting at home. No job still, no calls, no anything....the hunt continues!


Trish said...

Yowza! Here I was bloghopping in my own little bloghappy bubble when I came across your post and then the linked post and POP. As long as people are reading--reading anything, I'm happy. I'm all riled up now, and I don't even read fantasy! :)

Happy Wednesday.

Chris said...

Same here Trish! I'm happy as long as people are just reading! I found it quite ironic that the blogger called him or herself a lover of books yet bashed people for reading them. Your blog's great by the way! Happy Wednesday to you too :)

Nymeth said...

Some read more than four — one person read 29!

Bwahahahaha! Yeah, how dare I read 29 books. I should be ashamed of myself.

It was just now that the possibility crossed my mind that somehow someone could see my wrap-up post for the challenge as bragging. I SO did not intend it like that that I didn't even think it that reading could be possible. I felt accomplished, of course, but I'd have to be insane to think that made me "better" than anyone.

I read a lot - it's just what I do. There are several reasons for this. Because my boyfriend is currently in another country and I don't have much of a social life; because I'm a student so early in the semester I have quite a bit of free time; but above all, because it's what I LOVE to do. Because reading is my main passion in life.

And that person is right about one thing - fantasy fans DO tend to read a lot. And the reason for that is that they mostly enjoy the books they read. Fantasy is entertaining, yes, but that doesn't mean it is any less complex or thought-provoking, or that it doesn't deal with the "real life" issues non-genre fiction deals it. It just manages to both do it and very entertaining at the same time.

This reminds me of what a classmate of mine told me once. He always saw me with a different book every week, sometimes two in the same week (and many of these were not fantasy), so one day he said, "how come you read so fast? I bet you don't even think about what you read. I take a couple of months to read a book because I have to stop every few pages to reflect on what I've just read." I said, "I do think. I just like to do my thinking, you know, after doing the actual reading."

People like him, and like the person who wrote that post, are somehow under the impression that literature is supposed to be a form of torture. That books have to be "difficult" and unpleasant. I think that the reason why they carry the same book around for months is because they don't actually like reading at all. They do it because it's "deep" and "intellectual" and because those are the "right" books everyone "smart" is supposed to read, but they don't actually like them.

This also reminds me of one literature teacher I had, for whom actually enjoying a book was the eighth deathly sin. "Some people", she would say, "read books for pleasure. That's no better than sitting on the couch to watch a soap opera. You are passively consuming and unquestionably accepting whatever the author presents you with. A good, intelligent reader has to question and deconstruct the book, and this requires effort. It is NOT pleasant" Well, yes, of COURSE I question what I read. And of course I don't "accept" or "believe" everything I read in a book. But how on earth does that mean I can't also enjoy it?

Wow, sorry for the huge rant. It's just that this infuriated me quite a bit too, as you can probably tell.

And just to end on a positive note, I love Kim's blog too!

Chris said...

Nymeth, I can only imagine how infuriated you were! It pissed me off! Like it's some horrible thing that you read 29 books?! Get a frickin life!

That was the most idiotic, oxymoronic post I have ever read. I started looking around her blog, and I'm sorry, but her blog is filled with manga and comics and fantasy "crap"...what makes her think that she's any better than us? Grrr...people like that piss me off so much.

What offended me more than anything is that I know you and I know Carl...not on a deep personal level, but I know you all somewhat and definitely on a reading level, and you're so not a crap-reader! If the person took even a second to read your blog they would've seen your love of books and the reason that you read 29 books in 3 months (which really isn't unheard of...that's 10 a month).

I'm glad you wrote what you did on her blog and stuck up for yourself. I would've wrote something much uglier if she would've personally attacked me...something more along the lines of "go f.." okay, we won't go there ;) You and Carl handled the situation very well.

cj said...

So, the way I figure it, he's either a troll or an idiot. Either way, he's not worth getting upset about. Besides, as Chris said, Carl's post covered it.

There have always been people who consider anything other than LITERATURE as garbage. I feel sorry for them because if they truly believe a novel has to be dark and depressing to be good, their lives must be fairly dark and depressing, too.

Nymeth, I think your total is commendable. Congrats and congrats to all of you who took part in the challenge. I wish I'd discovered it sooner.


Nymeth said...

"I feel sorry for them because if they truly believe a novel has to be dark and depressing to be good, their lives must be fairly dark and depressing, too."

Very well said, Cj. And thank you. I definitely agree that this is not worth getting upset about, and that attention is probably what that person wants and we're giving it to them, but I just couldn't help it. I guess I've been living in my little world for so long I had forgotten people like that actually existed.

Chris, yeah, the personal attacks upset me. I too feel like I got to know you and Carl and others to some extent during the challenge, and you are all people I care about. Me they just mentioned in passing, but they attacked Carl directly, and how petty do you have to be to do that, after all the effort and dedication he put into this challenge? And it's so obvious that he did this, that we all did this, out of passion for reading, and not out of pretentiousnes or snobery or to feel superior, or whatever that person is implying.

And yeah, 10 books a month is not really outrageous, especially if you're not a very busy person and if reading is your main hobby. The funny thing is, I just mentioned the number ONCE in a post, so they have to actually have read my blog to know it. It's not like I was writing "LOOK AT HOW MANY BOOKS I READ" in every one of my posts and comments. I remember, for example, that once Kailana mentioned that her reading total for either April or May was 17 books. When I read that I thought, "now here's someone who both loves reading and has the time to do it." Seeing her passion made me smile, and the last thing that crossed my mind (or the mind of anyone who reads her blog, except perhaps that person, if they went there) was that she was bragging or acting "superior".

This is not and has never been about quantity, and seriously, it takes a special kind of mentality to see what we did, which was having fun reading for a few months, as snobbery. We did it out of passion and enthusiasm, and I thought that was as obvious as it possibly could be.

Okay Chris, I now will stop using your blog comments like a chatroom and shut up :P

Chris said...

CJ, you're right! It's best just to let it be. It's irritating though because this person's view that only "literature" is worthy of reading isn't even backed up by what they read! If you start looking at her blog, she reads worse garbage than anyone! LOL

Nymeth, Chat away! I love discussions :) I totally agree with everything you said. I think there are just people out there who get off on finding some way to put other people down. Remember not too long ago, Stephanie did that post about the dumb ass from the New York Post who said that Book Bloggers need to get a life and leave it to the professional literary critics? It's the same thing. They just need something to complain about.

I really think that some people just thrive off of negative energy and will do anything to get it...and now I feel stupid for even posting a response to that girl's post, because now I'm just feeding her fire :p Oh well, maybe there's some chance that some of this stuff that we've said will get through to her and make some sense.

I really love that Carl invited her to participate in the RIP challenge. It shows what kind of guy he is. He makes a good point though..instead of being so negative about things, if she really feels that way, why not use the opportunity of a challenge to share her thoughts on these "wonderful books that we're all missing out on."

Sorry, but I still think she's an idiot :p

Nymeth said...

Unfortunately I don't think she's the kind of person we can reason with. She already has us stereotyped, so regardless of what we say she'll just go "A-ha, look at how dumb these people are! I was right all along!"

Carl is being extremely graceful about this. I tried not to be too rude, but I couldn't avoid some sarcasm. But after that person's reply, divided in points so that us dumb nerds could follow, I could not help one last completely sarcastic reply.

I will ignore her from now on, though, because it really is best not to feed her fire. We're just giving her what she wants.

Court said...

I will admit right here and now that when I read that guy's post I started laughing. I couldn't help myself. It just strikes me as so funny that someone would waste all their time ranting about something like a blog challenge.

Don't get too worked up about it. It's just someone who has too much time on their hands and is too close minded to branch out in what they read.

Chris said...

Your right Nymeth, It's best just to let bygones be bygones...grrrrrr

Court, Trust me, I don't take it all that gave me a decent laugh as well. It's pretty pathetic that she has nothing better to do than do bash 80 people that she doesn't even know...oh well!

DesLily said...

WEll.. lessee now... I came home from visiting at the hospital and what do I find?

I am a nerd!

95% of what I read is fantasy. But then I read to escape, I read to relax and enjoy, not to sit there trying to understand what I just read!

No, I'm not "smart" at all... I guess it just doesn't upset me that I'm not very smart.. I get by.. and I enjoy my books!

I did feel badly that the person actually picked a name (nymeth) to expand upon. That was even dumber then offering their "opinion" about the challenge, because that's slander!

And boy howdy did you ever feed that person some hits to their blog! I went back to their "home page" and scrolled.. 90% had NO COMMENTS and the MOST on any one post was 5! Hello?! Can we say they are probably THRILLED with their comment section?! lol

I was going to leave a comment until I noticed how many were already there.. I decided not to feed that persons foolish thoughts that reading fantasy was "obnoxious"..

It's certainly not going to bother my reading habits!

Chris said...

Deslily, Carl sent out an email to all the Once Upon A Time Challenge participants about it, so I can't take ALL the credit for the comments ;)

Wasn't that ridiculous though?! You make a great point...God forbid people just want to read for fun, huh? Or just to read to escape...that's what fantasy is all about...that's why I love the genre so much! I love that feeling of escaping to some magical land to walking with creatures that I can't find in this world...

Poor Nymeth..that's what made me more upset than anything...that they felt the need to attack her for no reason other than she reads alot?! Give me a break!

Carl V. said...

You guys are great! I certainly didn't feel attacked personally...I felt my friends were attacked and that angered me tremendously. Which in itself is kind of petty, because, obviously, what does this person know anyway?

I try to be graceful, but the more times I have fed into stuff over there the less graceful I've gotten, to the point that I'm starting to feel bad about it. Don't worry, I'll get over it. ;)

These type of posts are a dime a dozen on the internet and I never respond to them, but just this once it became personal and I felt like I needed to stand up for all of you and put this ignoramus in her place for insulting my friends.

I know it will not result in her taking her thoughts back, if anything it will only reinforce her feelings of superiority, and for that I guess I am sorry.

At the same time, it is fun to argue sometimes, isn't it?

Chris said...

Carl, What pissed me off more than anything was for her to say something like that not even knowing the time and effort that you put into this challenge and the passion that you and all of the participants radiated! I know that no trivial comments made by here could take away from that, but it just really got me going.

Like you, I keep trying to keep my mouth shut and just stop arguing, but tuffy and trite are just so damn infuriating....but that's their aim. And they'll never stop being that way, so what's the point of arguing. I guess I should just stop checking the comments...but at the same time, it's fun to see them dig their selves into a hole.

Carl V. said...

I'm getting perverse pleasure in that myself Chris!!!

Chris said...


Jeff S. said...

nymeth - I think it's great you enjoyed those 29 books. You're the best.

Chris - I'm glad you posted on this. Carl called me this afternoon and told me about this post but I couldn't really imagine how bad this person had insulted him and the rest of us until I read it. Wow! What a sad person to be that bitter. I left my two cents but I doubt that Tuffy ever reads it since she hadn't respond all day and I just got done posting on her site at 1 am.

I should have know this was going to be an off day. UPS didn't deliver one box of the Diamond comics shipment today to the comic shop and of course was the one box that Carl and I's Stardust hardcovers were in. If that wasn't a sign then I don't know what is. :) Hopefully it will arrive tommarrow or Friday and the internet will smile on Carl and all of us again.

Stephanie said...

Some people just get a perverse pleasure in tearing down others. It's a shame too. I personally couldn't care less if someone calls me a nerd. I probably am!
What bothered me was the attack on the group as a whole. Carl went to a ton of work for that challenge and I feel bad for him!

Oh least we have each other, right???

Kim said...

*Blush* Chris, thanks for pointing people my way. I'm more than happy to have them there.

And, oh man, the comments on the OUAT Challenge post are priceless. Some people...

It was great to read the challenge participants well thought out responses.

Viva la nerds!

Rhinoa said...

Thanks for the first link, although I didn't agree with all that the original post said or the comments afterwards, it turned out to be a really interesting read! I love my fantasy, but I do like to read outside that box too.

Chris said...

Jeff, Ah, no time to read your comment on Tuffy's post now, but I'm anxious...have to get to work. I'll read it when I get off though. Wasn't that horrible though?! That sucks that y'alls books didn't come in!

Stephanie, I know I'm a nerd! :p I didn't need her to remind me! That's what pissed me off too! That she insulted Carl...You're right...we have each other :) In all our nerd-dom!

Kim, Your site's great! More than happy to send people your way. Just wish that I wouldn't have grouped you in the same post with that idiot!

Rhinoa, I definitely like to read outside of fantasy as well, that was the point that Carl and others were trying to make to Tuffy...unfortunately, it just didn't get through...ah well! You're right though...very interesting read!

Carl V. said...

I think it is great that in reality we all actually do read things other than fantasy. But that in no way means that we should feel like that makes us a better person or better reader. If all a person wanted to do was read fantasy, good for them! I could pick any genre of books that I enjoy and have enough good solid reading material to fill up my entire lifetime of reading. What makes us feel like we have to justify ourselves, and what makes us think we have to prove that we are 'well rounded' if that makes us better people. I've actually fed into this a bit myself over there, but it does have the rather negative consequence of making me look like I am saying that I am a better person because my reading is more varied than just fantasy. That is the kind of snobbishness that people like Tuffy are espousing. I want no part of it. If a person just wants to read one genre of books then I am sorry that they might miss out on books outside that genre that are fantastic reads, but that in no way diminishes their intelligence of makes them less of a reader.

Darla D said...

Wow, not much left to say, is there! Great points, everyone. I guess I might say that some people love to stir up controversy, and some people might be a bit envious that many of us plow through books because we are a wee bit obsessed with reading. Or maybe they grew up in a household where certain kinds of books were frowned upon and now feel they have to read dry and dusty tomes to feel like worthwhile people but really wish they could be reading about dragons and hobbits and such. Just a thought!

Chris said...

Carl, I don't think it's so much that we have to justify ourselves, I think it's more along the lines of fighting ignorance. It was just so damn frustrating to hear somebody say such idiotic things...having such a closed minded view, yet calling others closed minded!

Darla, I think you've got it right. My feeling is that this person is on an ego trip for some reason and feels that they have to "prove" their self by reading nothing but "literary works." Whatever, lighten up!

Bellezza said...

I so well remember the summer of 86, when I sat by the phone, literally, EVERY SINGLE DAY. Don't worry, it'll ring. With just the news you want to hear. But, it might not be until August 31. :)

Bellezza said...

p.s. that trite tuffy whatever person was just too...well, trite to take seriously. What a joke.

cj said...

Hey, Chris -

Maybe someone should invite her to take part in the Book Awards Challenge. I mean, they're books that should met her approval, after all.


Chris said...

Bellezza, I think I would be ok with August 31st...I'm sort of enjoying my summer ;) Joke doesn't even begin to describe the trite/tuffy person! OH, they just infuriated me!!

CJ, I'm sure she would find something to complain about even in that challenge. I have a feeling there's just no pleasing her. But I love your suggestion! I just may do that ;)

Nymeth said...

I think she'd complain that some individuals, such as myself, are degrading the challenge by daring to read World Fantasy Award, Nebula and Hugo winners alongside Pulitzers and Booker Awards ;)

Chris said...

My thoughts exactly Nymeth ;)

Bookfool said...

Wow, that was . . . weird. Thanks for posting the link. I read the post by "Tuffy" and all those comments. I think Tuffy and Trite must have a few Doritos up their respective butts, but I decided not to join in on the commentary. Let's just say, "I'm with Carl". I'm not into book snobbery and neither is he. I understand the reasoning for his challenge and applaud his effort to generate interest in an obviously much-maligned genre of fiction. And, I say that in spite of not being a big fantasy fan. Who cares? We should all read what gives us pleasure. If I only read literature, my head would explode.

BTW, wow to Nymeth's 29 books!! I'm impressed!

Chris said...

Same here Bookfool, what's the fun in just reading "literature"?! Sure, I enjoy a good classic now and then, but come on...I need something just to escape more often than not. That post still makes me angry!

Carl V. said...

Can I just say, "Amen!!!"

Jeff S. said...

Amen!!! :)

Chris said...


jean pierre said...

that sci-fi party thing is brilliant! i love how she's actually made that stuff...

Chris said...

Kim's great JP! I just discovered her blog not long ago. It's really cool. She comes up with these incredible recipes! I don't know how people think of these things...I guess you just need to be a certain type of person to be able to do that.